Question: Do you think that Universal bond for silane in his composition is a great mode to repair chipping ceramic just only with adhesive application after HF etching?
Hi guys. One question: do you think that Universal bond- every company- for silane in his composition is a great mode to repair chipping ceramic just only with adhesive application after HF etching? Thank to relieve my dubts!
John Comisi: Stefano it is my understanding that you would be better using a separate silane in this type of situation.
Gregori Kurtzman: John I agree best to use a separate ceramic enhancer (Silane) and silane works best on an acidulated surface so you want to apply acid etchant for 15 sec then rinse off before applying the ceramic enhancer containing the silane let that sit for 60 sec then air dry it and proceed with bonding
Stefano Daniele: I agree with your procedure and also I do this procedures: HF + silane+ non solvatated bonding. The question is why company insert in the Universal bond the silane..?? You know that one of the most mistake in dental adhesion by dentist is change and mistake the bottle. Therefore just only solution could reduce the risk of uncorrect procedure in order to simplification of procedure. I know that simplification does not mean better clinical practice but we may have a look to all the dentist and their practice. My dubt was if someone have clinical data about adesion to ceramic with HF and Universal like coupling agent. Thanks to all!
Keith Hollander: No acidulation with phosphoric acid on Zr. No silane on Zr.
John Comisi: Yes Keith, zirconia primer would be used or something like IvoClean.
Keith Hollander: I still see people “etching” and silanating Zr then wonder why they come off. Like they were lubricated. Duh, they were!
John Comisi: Yup. Phosphoric acid “kills” the Zirconia interface.
John Comisi: Stefano Daniele, why do companies do anything? Some do it to try to make things more “convenient”, some do it for marketing all the while without understanding the “chemistry” and hoping that dentists will use items without understanding the ramifications of what they are using.
Fabian Murillo: Actually, I’m working on that field, not exactly repairing ceramic using silane-containing universal adhesives, but glass-ceramic/resin cement bond strength. So, what I have are some references about ceramic/cement bonding using universal adhesives and two works of my own (in vitro studies, not clinical) about this also. I don’t know if you are interested specifically in ceramic repairing or in ceramic/cement bonding also. For bonding what is better to apply is what you said: HF+silane+adhesive (bond) in a separate way (for ceramic-cement bonding). I have seen some interesting facts on ceramic-cement bonding using universal adhesives as silane, but as repairing protocol (old ceramic-new ceramic), haven’t work on that yet…Stefano Daniele
Salvatore Sauro: Yes my dear Fabian, share with us your outomes and it would be great if you could write a short paper on this topic for our web-site www.dentalbmsr.org
Fabian Murillo: Thanks Tore! Will try to do so as soon as possible!
Salvatore Sauro: Thanks a lot Fabien
Stefano Daniele: All of us will waiting your short paper about this topic! Thx
John Comisi: Would love to see the work you are doing Fabian Murillo.
Fabian Murillo: Hi John, one is already published, if you like I can send it to you, the other one is in publication process, as soon as that process finish I can facilitate it also . But what I have seen through my research, is that is better to apply as almost all said: HF+silane+adhesive (bond) in a separate way (for ceramic-cement bonding). Universal adhesives works not so good as the separated procedure (or just HF+silane, without adhesive) on immediate bond strength, but in long term, it does not drop (the same as the separated protocol: HF+silane+adhesive (bond)) as the protocol without adhesive does (HF+silane). So I think that even mixing many components in one bottle may be detrimental (as seen normally on adhesive systems)probably because of reducing chemical adhesion spots (silane-ceramic surface) as other components such as monomers may share “space” on ceramic surface, or difficulties on evaporating the solvent and water from silane-ceramic condensation reaction, through a monomer dense layer…even having these aspects, the benefit of universal adhesives may be the “protection” it may provide to hydrolitic degradation of silane-ceramic bonding through its hydrophobic monomers (of course it also has hydrophilic monomers, it does not eliminate it, but retard it), same as the separated protocol (HF+silane+adhesive (bond)). Without using hydrophobic monomers (bond), just silane, long-term bond strength tended to drop. But of course, even both protocols (HF+ silane containing universal adhesive and the separated HF+silane+adhesive (bond)) resist better long term storage than wothout using adhesive in terms of bond strength, I recommend the separated protocol.
John Comisi: Beautiful! I couldn’t agree more! Yes, I’d love to have the published study and when the next one is published would love to have that one too! The more data to share with others the better we all are, and the smarter we can work in a more predictable manner. Excellent!!!
Fabian Murillo: Absolutely! Thank you John!
Stefano Daniele: Thank you Fabian Murillo. you explain me very good the topic and relieve my dubt. if you can send also to me your paper I thank you in advance and you ate very kind. thx. bye
DelfĂn Barquero Barquero: Silane in an acidic enviroment… My conclusion is that silane in a Universal bottle is not trustful. SomeCompanies show good results, but they etched the porcelain!!!!!!
John Comisi: Say it isn’t so Delfin. Companies not telling the truth 🙂
DelfĂn Barquero Barquero: We need to read between the lines
DelfĂn Barquero Barquero: Would like to see studies in a non etched porcelain. Universal bond with silane vrs pure silane
DelfĂn Barquero Barquero: Im sure the pure silane group will be better.
DelfĂn Barquero Barquero: Fabian Murillo Im very proud to say I know u since x amount of years. Also I love your dad.
Fabian Murillo: Dear Dr. DelfĂn, thank you so much for your kind words, I also appreciate you as a serious profesional and amazing person!About what you posted, is exactly what we were talking about, you are right, I do research in this field and I don’t recommend to…See more
DelfĂn Barquero Barquero: [email protected]
DelfĂn Barquero Barquero: Therefore mechanical retention made the work